About Using Window 7 On A Robot

Question

This tread is mostly about using WINDOWS XP IN A ROBOT and comparing it to windows 7 i see a lot of it off topic

Here is somethings i found out by testing both windows XP and windows 7

Now i have 2.4ghz dual processor with 3 gig memory and using 32 bit systems both windows 7 and windows XP and windows XP on a bench mark test shows it was much faster,now with a 64 bit windows 7 it was a lot faster.

But the windows 7 draw almost double current then windows XP THAT why if you check every professional robot over $1000 and some over $12000 like the one i am getting soon hanson ROBOKIND that just came out,none uses windows 7,robot cost more so they can easy add it,but they dont

Rich · Answer

Windows 8 is out, I went back to Windows 7 after using it... It's not clear, did you use the exact same system for your tests without altering any of the hardware configuration? Also, which versions of each OS tested? Home, Premium, Ultimate? Was anything cleaned up from the OS? P.S. Hanson Robokind datasheet specifies the OS is Ubuntu Linux not Windows XP...

jstarne1 · Answer

So far I like windows 7 ultimate the best but be sure to have at least 4gb ram for best system performance because its a larger os. I wish I had a copy of xp I would load it on a netbook just for demonstrations.

robotmaker · Answer

ok

thetechguru · Answer

Was your Windows 7 fully patched? I recall when it first came out there was a battery drain issue that was quickly patched. If you disable Aero (sp) the resource drain should be similar to XP (although it does require more memory for the same performance level of XP, which must use some additional power, but shouldn't be twice the current draw). Problem with XP with ARC is that the voice reco doesn't work under XP. Otherwise, everything else should be the same. Alan

Rich · Answer

You can strip down a Windows 7 to only have what is needed too. I'm sure I read somewhere that either voice synthases or voice recognition with ARC wasn't compatible when running XP... And you can add more than 3Gb ram (not 20, the limit on 32bit OS is 3) with XP, they do make a 64 bit version. I have to say that I've not noticed any increase in power usage on my desktop from when it was running XP and now running 7

robotmaker · Answer

I am using 64 bit version of windows 7 i thought i said that And yes 3 gb it all that windows XP see's the rest going to a video card mostly 64meg to 512meg of ram. YES thats you can do with any software stripped it down,thats what XPLITE is for and many others IF you have WINDOWS 7 stripped and windows XP srtripped ,the windows XP will be faster ? 64 bit runs faster then windows 32 bit but at double the wattage only person thats the best to tell you why WINDOWS XP is better for robots is a expert from any of the big robot companies some have 7 engineers voice recognition works perfect on my windows XP PRO and EZB no problems at all cant check power usage really on desktop with windows 7 or windows xp it uses line voltage just not the same test using a battery also almost none hobby robots use windows 7 too ALAN what version of windows xp was you using,mine shows no problems i have 2.4ghz dual quad with 3 gig of ram windows xp pro ,on my robot its a stripped version. I have another that not stripped i use to test software like windows versions PERSON who comments should make the same test ,as i did,doesnt have to be the same cpu ,just everything has to stay the same and get a benchmark test and a current meter.

Rich · Answer

I can check power usage on my desktops. Are you saying DC on my desktop is not the same as DC on a PC powered by a battery? DC is DC. There are never any mains voltages which go to the motherboard of a PC.

thetechguru · Answer

I am not using XP (well, I am on my work computer but not on anything I use for robotics, and I wouldn't use it on anything with Internet access once Microsoft stops releasing patches now that extended support is coming to an end), but late last year/early this year there was a lot of discussion on the board about speech recognition and XP (maybe it was Text to Speech and XP? I'll have to track down the messages, maybe DJ found a solution). Alan

robotmaker · Answer

ok

Rich · Answer

You can't be understanding what I was saying. The PSU is unimportant. The PSU remained the same for my benchmarks (although that too is unimportant). You claimed that you can't check power usage on a desktop, I said I can, and I have.

robotmaker · Answer

ok

Rich · Answer

I am aware of how to test a PC and run a benchmark, I run one every time I build, upgrade or repair a PC and before I start looking at a PC using AID64 Ultimate Edition. Your points about power supply are invalid. Even if the power consumption was measured with a plug in power meter, provided the PSU remained unchanged it would flag up double the current draw after upgrading from XP to 7. Reasons why I checked the current when running XP and 7 on the same PC, to find out the answer to this question. It was one of the biggest questions when 7 was released and as a lot of people come to me to upgrade their PCs I wanted to know the answer. I don't have the benchmark reports on this PC, they have been archived some time ago but I'll gladly search for them if you want proof. A clean optimised install of XP and a clean optimised install of 7 use similar power during normal use, windows 7 does use more resources and therefore more power but it's minimal. When running under full load they both use the same power. Saying that Windows 7 demands twice the power of XP is ludicrous. If your reports show that I suggest you check your Windows 7 install as it indicates to me that there is something running in the background which is very resource heavy. Was it a fresh, clean install from an OEM disc?

robotmaker · Answer

YOU SAY SO At least i know what true like said a few times anybody things i am wrong ,check with any of big major robotics companies THEY are the only one thats a expert on this and ONLY they use windows xp instead of windows 7 and they better systems then us too ,that does know all lot about robots then we do every post RICH you disagree with everything i say not what it is THIS POST IS CLOSED BY ME

thetechguru · Answer

To follow - up on Rich's comments, the reason I asked if your win7 was fully patched is because there absolutely was a power draw issue on laptops when it was first released which would show results like you saw (and drain batteries in record time) but it has long since been patched. My experience is that Win7 is far more stable and better in virtually every way to WinXP with only a very minor extra draw to power. If I get 10 minutes less battery life it is more than made up for in reduced aggrevation, faster bootup, and better performance.

Rich · Answer

@Robotmaker - no I don't There is a reason why Microsoft has phased out support for XP. A reason why Windows 7 is fast becoming the popular choice of OS for Windows PCs. You will be hard pushed to find a portable PC (laptop, netbook, tablet) which runs XP yet battery life is one of the main concerns for their customers. But let's ask robotics experts what they think rather than PC manufacturers...

robotmaker · Answer

yes thats what i said ask robotic engineers i have manty to list on them ,simple too go to support page and send a email to them PC manufactors only wont to sell PC so putting the lasted software only sells it faster for more sale i said it closed but will post a few robotic companies that are expert in the field not us. and you can in every every design they made,even the lastest only use WINDOWS XP or LINUX ONLY reason microsoft pahased out support is because of the new windows 7 and mostly in a year windows 7 will be phased out when other window editions come out LIKE WIDOWS 9 ,I HEARD FROM MY FRIEND he said they may give a new name mostly VISTA will be phased out first before windows 7 like windows 95 came out i had a compter using it and then went to windows 98 and so on

jstarne1 · Answer

In my personal experience xp is a "lighter" os that runs better on low power machines like netbook. I did an experiment monday and loaded win 7 ultimate on a Acer One and battery life went from 5-6 hours down to 2.5 hours on the same machine. Also the performance really dropped. At that point it could only play minecraft at like 2 frames per second. Im not saying this performance difference would apply for every machine but I just wanted to see if this super common netbook could handle it since atom 1.6 ghz is the most common and low cost netbook out there right now. Agian im not trying to pose any argument one way or another just sharing the results of this experiment. After the install. I had a rediculous amount of updates - Josh S

robotmaker · Answer

coroware corobot with window pretty easy to find the webpage and support white box robotics with window xp pretty easy to find support for a robotics expert RICH

thetechguru · Answer

How much RAM on that Netbook? Mine came with 2 gig and ran Win7 family well, but could barely run with Ultimate. Put 4 gig in though and have super performance. It is a 1.6 Atom proc.

robotmaker · Answer

Thanks very much JOSH does show i am right

jstarne1 · Answer

This netbook is 1 gig of ram and 160gig ssd

thetechguru · Answer

Anyway, is a moot point if you don't already have a license. Microsoft won't authorize new sales, and soon will stop authorizing downgrade rights to XP once they end extended support.

jstarne1 · Answer

Yea ultimatly its better to get more powerful computer than a atom lol. Im a fan of amd c60 and e series for low power solutions. On robots like my sguegee I probably wont use voice recognition so its cool to have xp.... all that matters is if what you have does what you want

Rich · Answer

Do I need to make a sarcasm sign?.. You still haven't answered the questions asked about your windows 7 installation. When Windows Vista was released you could still buy laptops with XP installed, even up until after windows 7 was released. Vista had too many issues. If what you claim about pc manufacturers is true they would have opted for Vista but they didn't. They want profit and sales but they don't do that at the cost of poor performance, except for Gateway who paid the price for that. Windows Vista has already been phased out, before XP was. And for the record, I am an expert in the field of computers, more so Microsoft software. They don't just hand out MCDST, MCITP, MCSD etc. certifications to just anyone. The point is, an optimised installation of Windows 7 does not draw twice the current of an optimised installation of XP. It draws slightly more but it's minimal and barely worth being bothered about.

robotmaker · Answer

I dont think the will stop selling it it says no support only, I guess RICH you know more then any robotic engineers or any one else i guess next your are the best in programming and robotics too really do need to find out how to delete this post ,so nobody cant post or cause and bad feeling or anything else

jstarne1 · Answer

Oh sry rich what was it you wanted to know about the win 7 install on the acer one netbook?

robotmaker · Answer

can this post please end,no more comments at all,not good for this forum and DJ will be very upset if you dont post any comments then nobody ever will reply not trying to be mean or not like anyone , iwish there was a post delete button for the person who started this post SORRY i ever bought this up ,made a mistake,sorry DJ

Rich · Answer

Sorry, that was directed at @robotmaker not you Josh (it looks like there were a lot of posts while I typed mine), although now you mention it, was it fully updated when it reported a big reduction in time left on the battery? And were all the fancy aero features turned off etc. (really, that makes a massive difference to processor usage which would affect the battery). @Robotmaker, I stand by what I'm saying with Windows 7/XP, I have said that I will dig out my old reports and logs. I never claimed to know more about anything than anyone I merely pointed out that I am a Microsoft Certified Professional and that pretty much puts me in the "expert" classification when it comes to Microsoft products.

robotmaker · Answer

RICH you say so, i know a few too,microsoft certified pro only they work at BIG computers shops so i dont think you are a expert ,but like said ask a robotics expert and give us that they say about them only using windows xp in robotics that is what this forum is about not about microsoft stuff only whats trhe best microsoft software used on robot if you are such a big shot certified expert ,show just one robot design ever use a windows 7 software should be very easy for you ,i bet you cant find one many pc's has it ,but not robots and new ones just came out too seems you dont know anything about robotics ,just learning witch is great

Rich · Answer

When did I say I was better than Microsoft? Please, point it out. If you are referring to when I said "And for the record, I am an expert in the field of computers, more so Microsoft software" re-read it. More so, not more than. My expertise is in Microsoft products. This issue has absolutely nothing to do with robotics. It's linked to it only though third party software. Why would I know what software robots run? It's as if you think the only thing a portable PC is used for is robotics... Purely to prove a point, This weekend when I get the chance I will run the battery eater test on my laptop running Windows 7. I will then install XP and carry out the same test and post the results.

robotmaker · Answer

YES this post does have everything to do with robotics its about using windows xp on a robot and comparing it to windows7 on a robot There are other forums to talk about microsoft products i fix the small mistake with a edit button You said you are making you firsty robot with a omnibot And you also said on another post you are not using a computer in your robot also so you really dont know much yet about using platforms on robots very easy to PROVE ME WRONG give me a robotic company that uses windows 7 or any other semipro desgn too,and i never yet seen a hobby robotist use one too portable is mostly used on robots,some have itx types some use laptops ,i can give you a list of many mostly very small robot cant use it yet,and some robot companies use 3 itx board in thier robotsI I am not a certified robotics engneer,i was offer the job.but not moving to california or anywhere lsi i love florida and my job too,BUT i do no a lot and alot of all types of robotic design,main reason i search them and them buy them for my very big collection,doing it for over 20 years and same on sensors too everytype made,soon will post my very large collection of my sensors.cant on the robots ,DJ said no robots unless it EZB used in it and over 8 robots has windows xp and about 30 more comming soon,about 4 wont WALL-E and a few others

robotmaker · Answer

DO what what you want doesnot prove anything,if you want to use windows 7 on any of you robot great by me PLEASE do not say i am wrong use a point it seems you are really trying very hard to make a point about you love with windows 7 going to ask DJ HOW TO DELETED this post not good for this forum

Rich · Answer

The post may be but the issue of battery life on a notebook/nettop pc isn't strictly robot related. There are literally millions of people who use portable computers every day without robots being involved. Like I said, to prove my point, I will carry out the battery eater test on my laptop with both Windows 7 and Windows XP and I guarantee the battery life on Windows 7 is not anywhere near half that of the XP test. Not sure how that wont prove anything though... I struggle to follow your logic...

robotmaker · Answer

I bet you will,i know you cant wait to post to try or make somebody wrong It has the same results on 2 people me and another person that posted a test Since you say you are a big shot expert i know will fix it to show your good results,kinda easy to do also ,since no video tape or anyone watching you making changes to suit you but I know very well you will make a comment on my post i just too to say something about your test and yes it very much is,about using a battery issue ,thats why you only a begineer at robots. I know some robots that pc as a control,but about 90% or more use a battery yes they do BUT THEN YOU SAID ( There are literally millions of people who use portable computers every day without robots being involved.) So try me why does this have anything to do with robots. Like said and DJ SAID only robot related ,i think every one knows there are millions of people that uses portable computers ,MAJOR point ITX BOARDS are not portable computers,laptops and mini pc computers and many other are. Not many robots builders use laptops,because of the size but there is some they do,because dont know how to add a itx or thier design needs a screen.

robotmaker · Answer

I guess like always you missed the top heading (About Using Window 7 On A Robot ) so this post is about robots and about a low battey issue and speed using both types of software please first read before you say a comment not true (The post may be but the issue of battery life on a notebook/nettop pc isn't strictly robot related). (There are literally millions of people who use portable computers every day without robots being involved.) second comment does not BELONG on this site use a software site to make thart comment please

Rich · Answer

Sorry?.. You will dispute my results if they prove you wrong despite not giving any indication of where your proof is or even answering basic questions about your W7 installation... Was it optimised? With all due respect, you are impossible, illogical and either just don't get it or purposely try not to make sense. Seriously I want to physically grab your head and shake it until something gets through!.. On a robot, off a robot, where the pc is makes no difference!.. The rest, well, I just don't care about. I'm fed up of trying to explain the basic things you can't seem to grasp or just don't have any indication that you will accept Facts are (as can be found on many many websites) there is minimal extra power drain when using Windows 7 over Windows XP. There is an issue with out of the box Windows 7 and power drain. Fix the issues, optimise your installation and Windows 7 is as efficient as Windows XP. If you want to dispute that feel free to prove it wrong, God knows I've offered to prove it right but even that's not good enough!.. I will post my results for users to see and use should they wish to but if you are going to dispute them at least back up the dispute and justify it. Until then I will have nothing further to say on the matter.

robotmaker · Answer

that was very insulting to what you sad and will be reported to DJ TO BAN YOU Hhere ia few rules for banning Hostile, insulting or bullying to me thats a insult or bully or hostile (Seriously I want to physically grab your head and shake it until something gets through!.. ) And i wont dispute you resuls ,just wont comment on them and dont care about your results,so mostly your results are only for you ,i think nobody will make any comments or check this thread AT least i did the test will my owns eyes and josh got the same results too i will NOT post in you post anymore ever and i hope you do the same not upset or dislike you in any way,I AM Nvery nice person that never fights or get angry ever hope you have a good christmas and may the lord be with you You will this is my last post to this thread

thetechguru · Answer

Everyone needs to take a chill pill. Discussing the merits of the different operating systems is valid and useful information. Getting upset and defensive when your opinion is challenged doesn't help anyone. Just put your experiences and knowledge out there, and expect that others will do the same and may disagree with you. Sometimes they will be right, sometimes they will be wrong, but if we all explain what our knowledge is based on, then we can learn from each other, and future readers of the thread can make up their minds based on the evidence presented. No need to get in a pissing match about it. We certainly don't want this place to turn into something like the society of robots forum, one of the most unfriendly enthusiast forums I have ever visited.

Troy · Answer

I second what thetechguru said. I (and I bet many others) are interested what a certified microsoft expert has to sat on this topic "using Windows7 on a robot". @RichMR2, please continue, because there are quite a few of us reading the posts even if we can't add to it. Post the findings and ignore negativity.

robotmaker · Answer

I dont know if RICH is right or wrong,all i know from the test i did and i saw with with my eyes and JOSH did the same did and got the same results But i will like that someone say going to rip you head off and knock some sense in to it Thats not a nice thing to say, If he doesnt agree with fine I made a big mistake putting this thread up and i think i wilkll be able to have it removed so there wront be any more arguing or almost name calling As soon as i have time will ask a robot expert on what he has to say ,like the ones at WHITE BOX robotics and post the email from them,thier brand new systems dont use windows 7. Also from other posts RICH does not like any of my ideas,and some i am not a expert but i am very close to it LIKE sensors ,thats my biggest field i have been testing them for a very long time and almost everyone made and some are very classified from work One thing i do alot on my robots it test and test before i build them I have so much equipment and can have access to many more if i need it

Rich · Answer

@Glickclik (Troy) I will still be posting the results, it is relevant to EZ Builds. The main thing I have been trying to get across is that Windows 7 needs to be optimised. A new installation of Windows 7 with no patches and all of the junk Microsoft assumes we need (Aero etc.) will have huge battery drain due to an issue that more than just me mentioned. I'll also post instructions on what to remove, which power settings to use and what's switched off to maximise the battery time. I'm tempted to throw in a Windows 8 test too as Windows 8 is super cheap (25 over here for the upgrade that works for fresh installs) and built for portable devices so should be light, and ARC works on it (as far as I've read).

Troy · Answer

@fred it isn't a mistake for posting the thread offering information, hard data and/or personal insight. That's the end of it in my book and I hope DJ Sures does not delete this thread because there is information to be had relevant to the thread topic. @RichMR2 We always assumed that windows7 would require a lightweight install but with your expertise we can learn the best way to do it. I'm sure both of you and some of us were frustrated at how the thread developed but lets remember our holiday cheer and refocus on the intent of the thread topic. I, for one, am interested.

thetechguru · Answer

@Robotmaker I don't think this thread was a mistake to put up. It is a useful discussion that just got out of hand because many of us get passionate about the things we care about. I am still interested to know if your system was fully patched when you tested, because there absolutely was a battery life bug in Windows 7. Josh's battery issue was clearly because the machine did not have enough memory to properly run Windows 7. At only 1 Gig, his memory would be constantly swapping to disk, causing the disk to run at full speed all the time, and that would chew through the battery very fast. Doubling (or better yet, quadrupling) the memory would have provided a very different experience. Probably 10% higher battery use at worst. As far as robot companies sticking with XP while Microsoft still allows them to resell it in embedded systems, there are many reasons for that, not all related to performance. I still have XP on my work computer because of compatibility issues with some even older legacy software we use. We have spent several million dollars upgrading our back-end software over the past year so that we can migrate to Windows 7 this year before Microsoft stops providing security patches. A lot of companies will take an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude for as long as they can because making changes can be expensive. Until very recently, most bank ATM's still ran IBM's OS/2 Warp, which is now 18 years old and hasn't been supported by IBM in at least 8 years, but it cost so much to re-write the software, and Windows was comparatively so unreliable and vulnerable to hacking until Windows 7 that they were unwilling to change. Now that Windows 7 is a highly stable and secure OS, the banks that didn't switch to Linux as making the change to Win7. Alan

robotmaker · Answer

TROY good idea Its just i tried it at home on my computer and gave me bad results, i mostly use computers in all my robots to make them very real and doesnt need a seperate computer to control them. Another good reason is no WIFI OR BLUETOOTH is needed and no RFI problems or short range or metals causing interference problems I tried many operating systems except MAC, RICH makes his test it may not be same as mine and maybe it may give better results. AND same with JOSH it did almost the same as mine and got poor result just like mine Maybe another person have the same results or maybe not Merry christmas and happy new year TROY On removing the thread i did not want this to be like a fist fight All i did is put what i found of the test i did

robotmaker · Answer

ALAN you may have some good points but tell me this WINDOWS 7 been out for a very long time and this is maybe only club that using WINDOWS 7 IN THIER ROBOT,i have search so much on the internet and have so many many links and had to find the link Of others like us building robots,one seen one with windows 7,every robot builder is using only windows XP and many from colleges that i know they have windows 7 software ,it doesnt cost that much so why do they use it in thier robot designs ? love to see the the answer for that and a very new design that just came of a professional robot design uses windows xp and i know the company can very easy add windows 7 without any added cost , I seen where some designs use UP TO 3 ITX BOARDS running windows XP in one robot one for brain,one for navigation and one for hardware

Troy · Answer

I think the test results on the stripped down win7 will give the best answer. XP has been around longer than win7. In my opinion, if I had a bot running on xp why would I upgrade? That would be a hassle. It could explain why some haven't done it. Lets just see what the results show first.

robotmaker · Answer

to me its super easy to upgrade and mostly like the colleges if they want to use windows 7 then you dont need to upgrade also you just swap a hard drive out with another and install windows 7 on it when you buy windows 7 you need to install it on a new drive or format a old drive i have about 6 drives with different operating systems on each and able to clone any drive too on stripping down windows 7 ,it can be done with windows xp results are sometimes not good,maybe not the same system or same memory or 32 bit or 64 bit a 32 BIT windows is not that bad if stripped down,but most of us dont know how to do it widows 7 has so many extra features on it takes up a lot of resources i stripped my windows xp to use almost no resources but thats not the one oi test windows 7 with it would not be fair test,when you do a test everything has to be the same ,no changes also i found out that windows 7 needs more memory then windows 7 and JOSH proved that like ALAN SAID,also on windows 7 you need a much faster machine too

thetechguru · Answer

@Robotmaker I don't deny that XP was the best OS Microsoft put out until Windows 7. Vista was a disaster and I would never recommend it over XP. My main points in recommending it now is that you can't buy it, although for a very limited time Microsoft will still authorize "downgrade license" if you buy Windows 7, at least for corporate purchases. Not sure if you can still get that on individual purchases, so for someone just starting out, it is probably not the best advice to suggest XP. The other point several of us have made is that with the right hardware and tuning, Windows 7 can be as good as XP. The extremely poor battery life you saw is something that can be corrected with the right hardware and the right tuning. If Microsoft would still sell XP, and provided security patches, I would have no disagreement with you (as long as the voice reco and text to speech do in fact work... haven't looked through the release notes to see if DJ fixed, but I believe you if you say it is working). However, Microsoft stopped providing free security patches in 2009 and will only provide paid patching through April of 2014, so if you plan on allowing your robot's computer access to the internet, or access to networks with potentially unprotected machines, you are putting your system at risk. See Windows Lifecycle Alan

robotmaker · Answer

windows xp pro requirements The minimum hardware requirements for Windows XP Professional include: .Pentium 233-megahertz (MHz) processor or faster (300 MHz is recommended) .At least 64 megabytes (MB) of RAM (128 MB is recommended) .At least 1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available space on the hard disk .CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive .Keyboard and a Microsoft Mouse or some other compatible pointing device .Video adapter and monitor with Super VGA (800 x 600) or higher resolution .Sound card .Speakers or headphones windows 7 requirements .1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor .1 gigabyte (GB) RAM (32-bit) or 2 GB RAM (64-bit) .16 GB available hard disk space (32-bit) or 20 GB (64-bit) .DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM 1.0 or higher driver from microsoft a very big difference and the size is really big,hard to fit in a flash drive for small robot designs to use as a hard drive

robotmaker · Answer

then why would very big companies buy a software that you cant buy any more and put in thier systems and had to get support for it too they are still selling windows xp too,just cant buy from microsoft i never asked for support for windows xp or never will need it and same with my windows 7 i dont need any support too also someone bought up of a power drain issue ,my windows 7 i did the test has all the lastest patches as windows xp

robotmaker · Answer

looking at not to make any more comments on this thread sorry but that how i feel i need to start building robots more

thetechguru · Answer

@Robotmaker I have already answered your question about why some companies will buy Windows 7 licenses and exercise their downgrade rights to XP. That is currently only available to OEMs and corporate customers, not individuals anymore. You can buy ANYTHING, or even find most OS or software for free somewhere. Those licenses are not legal. Microsoft owns the software and licenses its use. No one is legally allowed to sell it without a reseller agreement, and if they are selling it now (other than as an OEM or embedded system as mentioned above), they are violating that agreement. Doesn't mean you can't find it, but I am not going to recommend stealing software or buying from thieves on a hardware/software company's support forum. The support that everyone needs from Microsoft is security patches. Unless you are a corporate customer or OEM, you can't get them for XP, and even then, you need to pay for them since 2009. Without those patches, your XP install is vulnerable to malware. Again, I would never recommend someone use an operating system that can't receive security patches. If you never connect your XP powered robot to the internet or a network with other computers, then security patching may not be an issue for you, but many of us want to be able to remotely access our robot's via the internet, so it is an issue for us. Alan

robotmaker · Answer

ones i buy does have a license,i dont buy bootleg copies of anything on malware you dont need a patch,norton and others can get rid of it iits been a over a year since i need a patch and they send me some and i do not install them i never found that i ever needed a patch on my systems and i use remote access alot since i travel alot and want to see whats going on at my house,with my camera's and alarm system design and i can control any lights or anything else from any country in the world also so far i never got a virus after i made a changes to my computer and router and if i did get one i found a super fast fast to get rid of it i make a backup hard drive thats clean,any files i save goes straight to a flash drive and remove it after the download if left on the computer ia virus might get on it second i remove the drive and put in new drive,and i dont have to open my computer so i really dont need a virus protection it does slow the computer down also same reason i never need security patches,may be others do

Rich · Answer

It's obvious from what I've just read that @Robotmaker thinks he knows more than he actually does or has been told a lot of poor ways to carry out tasks that just should not be done that way. That's not meant in a bad way by any means. It's just some of the things you have said are untrue or not good practice... In fact it's very bad practice... If you don't have virus protection how do you know the backup of the hard drive is clean? @thetechguru I resell Microsoft licences, as far as I know authorisation is not required but perhaps that is just in the UK or maybe I missed that bit... I will have to check that out.

robotmaker · Answer

RICH you are wrong ,why you dont know me at all ,so please dont say i was told a poor ways to carry out tasks,you have you ways that work and i have mine the does work for me on the backup it started as a clean drive a long time ago and when you copy a drive it doesnt get any virus i have one computer with no internet at all,so no virus can get on it ,that why YOU DONT KNOW ME mad mad starting to get nmad and i have never ever done it also there in windows xp a program that checks to see if you have a license for it or installed in another computer and wont work after a awhile also OEM i think doesnt have it and most will only work on certain cumputers ,like a OEM FOR DELL will only work on dell machines

thetechguru · Answer

@Robotmaker Rich was not insulting you. He is informing you that if you are not taking Microsoft patches, and just relying on anti-virus, and worse, if you aren't even running Anti-virus and also not taking patches, you are not following the most basic computer security best practices. You are very lucky if you have never had a virus. Maybe the poor performance on your Windows 7 was because you got a virus you don't even know about. Certainly, if you don't take patches, then you could have the poor battery performance bug. Patches aren't just for vulnerabilities, just 90% of them are.... If you don't follow the most basic practices of protecting your software, you may want to stick to hardware advice (of which much of yours is very good) and leave operating system advice to experts like Rich. Alan

Rural Geek · Answer

I just bought a Aspire one Netbook with Win 7 Starter on it. It only has a gig of ram and will not take any more. I was going to use it just for the robot. But from what I am seeing here I am worried it doesn't have enough to work with. I figure it was a good place to start then put a mini itx in it later when funds allow. What do you guys think? Is there things in msconfig or through regedit that I can shut off that will free up some horspower to help it work for now?

thetechguru · Answer

@Rural Geek. Don't upgrade from Win 7 Starter to any other editions and 1 Gig may be OK. Win 7 Starter as fully loaded as it can be, will use about 750 Meg of the memory, but you can probably tweak it to run less by disabling services you don't need. If the notebook has an SD slot, you can put in an SD card and Windows can use it for swap space which is faster and less power hungry than swapping to disk too. A 2 Gig card should be big enough for a machine with 1 Gig of memory. For virus protection, I have found Microsoft Security Essentials, although not the best at finding new viruses, also has the least impact on performance, and it is free, which is nice. Rich can probably give some additional tuning advice. Alan

Rich · Answer

@robotmaker What you have described is very bad practice, if it works for you then great, go nuts with it I'm not going to attempt to convince you otherwise. Depending on how you "copy a drive" makes a massive difference on if it can keep hold of a parasite, your comment that copying a drive means it doesn't get a virus is not strictly true. I guess it also depends on what you class as a clean drive, that could mean anything from an unformatted drive that has been wiped to government standards or could mean a drive that's had an image of the OS written to it or even a drive that's simply been formatted and the OS reinstalled... In any case that is unimportant. If you are happy with your methods it's your call to continue using them and ignore my advice. I don't expect anyone to follow my advice, they are free to use as much or as little as they wish. Back to the subject of battery drain, I managed to get off work early so am running BatteryEater on Windows 7 SP1 without any optimisation (other than the SP1 patch). Allowing for recharging time and installation/setup times this could take a fair few days...

jstarne1 · Answer

Every acer netbook ive seen has a memory slot and are upgradable to either 1.5 or 2 gig ram. Trouble is some y slots are under the keyboard.

robotmaker · Answer

ALAN i have a new norton antivirus on my computers and the found no virus on it and a never added a security update on it ,i didnt say he was insulting me this time ,JUST HE DOES NOT NO ME ,so you dont say i get wrong info , laptop are the same i dont use security patches and found no problems with my battery battery issue was with windows 7 until it was fixed

robotmaker · Answer

RURAL GEEK ,i like XPLITE program you can remove programs and resources safely and easy and able to place on a flash drive to use as a hard drive but i mostly buy SSD they cost alot more but worth the price and if you robot bumps into anything or falls it wont get damage JOSH alot of notebooks and laptops has it under the keyboard,some are tricky to remove i like laptops that has a bottom access panel to it i also another laptop i have on my robot is a acer notebook ,i use about 5 different notebooks ,some robots nice to have a screen also when i put a computer on my robot i first do a check on the software needed what i going to use it for and find the right size computer for it (speed and memory) i dont look for a overkill putting a faster computer cost a lot more and wont make much difference like if not using a web cam so not much resources and memory is used plus a faster computer uses more battery power most of my post answers has toi do with saving battery power ,like using low current sensor or making low current servo motors battery power is very important to me,less charging and longer run times also look at making my designs as light as i can for same reason i see so many robot builder here make robots and then find out the they dont have a enough torque and have to redesgn it .thats a waste of time and money

Rich · Answer

@RuralGeek, Windows Starter isn't as processor heavy as it is the basic version and doesn't even come with features such as Aero. The first thing to do is to check your power settings and get that set up right. Allow it to turn off peripherals which you don't use, dim the display, allow it to turn off hard drives when not in use (unless SSD, in which case optimise it (don't do the ram cache)), disable wifi if you don't need it. Windows Starter has a lot of the power hungry features already disabled, or more to the point, they aren't there to begin with. As @TheTechGuru said, use ReadyBoost if possible. disable SearchIndex disable visual effects disable UAC uninstall and turn off the junk MS ships with Windows (add/remove programs) if you don't plan to use it. Disable the sidebar and gadgets Disable screensavers, desktop images, sounds etc. There is a lot you can do, although I am off out shortly so don't have time to go in to masses of detail, I will if you get stuck though, and I'm sure I've missed a lot of other tricks to speed it up and save on power. And if you are planning to mess with the registry please back it up first
regedit.exe /s filename

robotmaker · Answer

RICH I WILL TRY YOUR IDEAS,to see if i get good results but,still will use WINDOWS XP one main reason WINDOWS 7 cost more,and since i bought over 20 windows xp licensed OEM it will be a very long time before i ever need WINDOWS 7 and i have a 64 bit windows 7 on my special server computer with 2 I7 ,looking to add 2 more

Rich · Answer

Look in to getting a WinPE setup if you want the ultimate in power saving. Again, when I have more time I will go in to more detail. It's not for your average user though as it's initial purpose was for Pre installation. I've not tried ARC with it and don't plan to. I have not disputed that XP is a good OS. It's a great OS. I still use it at work. My home office was only upgraded to Windows 7 because I need to know how to use it when asked questions and because I needed to upgrade to a 64 bit OS to give it enough usable RAM to do the tasks I needed it to do. If you are happy with Windows XP use it. That is not my argument in this topic.

robotmaker · Answer

but it is.I MADE THIS TOPIC TO COMPARE BOTH,YOU DID NOT START THIS TOPIC if you want to start on on windows 7 fine with me main part of this tpic is about saving battery power only ,i did a very real test,not using a laptop or computer but whats on a robot using a itx board with a dc-dc converter,i used a battery with a inline current meter and one bost systems everything stayed the same no changes at all so please dont tell me how i strated this post info you bring up should be on your thread only,so many people love to get off topic including me but this topic I MADE is about comparing both systems on saving battery power on robots PLEASE make you own topic on windows 7 also i had a test copy of WINPE its like XPLITE but xplite IS FREE,But i do like WINPE better looking to get it too

Dave Schulpius · Answer

Rich and other MS Experts; I'm really interested in your discussion comparing the OS systems and optimizing Win 7 to run as efficient as possible. I do understand if ANY OS is optimized properly it will save on power consumption. I know Rich has listed a few tricks in a past post in this thread but he mentioned Win 7 starter. It may have been lost in the flurry of other posts but is there a good resource I could visit on the Web that would give me a step by step guide to trim down other versions of Win 7? I've done to in the past to XP and had great results but now I need to do it to Win 7. I'm sure this will really help my robot project and EZB. Despite the static caused by a string of negative posts, this has been a very useful thread. I hope it survives the editing room of EZ Robot and continues on an adult level. I love a passionate discussion and a swapping of knowledge and ideas. Thanks everyone, Dave Schulpius

robotmaker · Answer

thanks DAVE very good solid points but i do think it needs a new thread ,since mostly when i started it ,was mostly about using WINDOWS XP and saving power,i guess i named it wrong Thats the main reason i started this post I also dont like other say ,going to rip my head off,or say i got the wrong info.when that person doesnt know me at all,just because fhe doesnt agree with what i say,to me that a bad person one thing you dont do is insuly someone or say like a threat,maybe it didnt meen it that way but still seems like a treat,i never say anyone is wrong,or insult them or anything say anything bad about them i treat everyone very nice and want the same in return

Dave Schulpius · Answer

robotmaker; Yes, I can see how this thread took a turn from your intended target topic. Sometimes though a thread will take a turn like this and as long as it's not too far off topic I see no harm. In fact when twists like this happen, sometimes we find the best answers to problems and new solutions appear. I've found in my life that with a little tolerance to other ideas and being a little more flexable I've been astonished how much more I learn and makes whatever I'm doing at the time better. For archive sake it would be nice to have a different topic heading for the merits of each OS and how to optimize then for EZB. That would help in the future for anyone wishing to search out this info. However life in a Forum is not always that neat and organized. Maybe someone will start that topic someday. Then it can point back to this thread! Have a good day, Dave Schulpius

robotmaker · Answer

DAVE i really love your points of views,you seem like a good person like me fred miller have a blessed christmas and may god take good care of you

Dave Schulpius · Answer

Rich · Answer

XPLite is not free, if it is then it is illegal. All copies of Windows must have a valid licence. XPLite does not come with a valid licence therefore it is not a legitimate copy of Windows so is an illegal counterfeit copy. If you have a copy of XP and a valid licence you can streamline it and using a copy of XPLite may be legal (a lot of assumptions have been made in order to get to the legal status mind you). XPLite is not WinPE Why must I make a new topic to discuss various supported OS? As you deleted your first post and the title states Windows 7 I don't see the problem. I am finding you very hostile towards me and towards anything other than XP (or XPLite). There are a number of users who have posted in this topic who are interested in the various OS and the pros and cons, I'm sure there are more who have not posted. I will continue to discuss all supported OS, their pros and cons and offer advise on how to improve them for use with ARC in this topic unless I am advised otherwise by a site moderator. If you do not like it you are free to either disregard my posts or to not involve yourself with the topic. For anyone interested, my test on Windows 7 SP1 64bit Enterprise without any optimisation is as follows and attached...  Log.txt Once this is all done I will probably make a new topic with only the useful information in it and none of the hostility and argument. I do apologise to those trying to follow the information on the different OS.

robotmaker · Answer

one i got was free,from a person who did want it and gave it to me,very legal i do not buy anything that NOT LEGAL,NO BOOTLEG or anything else So like i said many times you dont know me YOU ARE THE ONE THAT HOSTILE ABOUT ME ass you may me a expertt on windows ,i am expert on SENSORS and electronic and you did not like any of my ideas,putting back the first post every copy of windows as a valid copy of the license not a good idea of any software not to have a valid license when you buy it, first it illegal and second you get no support lot of people buy them because they are cheap,but they are NOT WORTH THE PRICE IF someone gives you a legit copy they MUST DELETED from the hard drive

Rich · Answer

Thanks for clarifying that this all goes back to me not openly stating that I took your advise on board regarding the sensors. With that in mind I will now be ignoring your posts unless they have actual content that is factual and meaningful.

robotmaker · Answer

Same here,i will never post any info for in any of your posts too IT seems your are not a nice person by saying i want to rip your head off and knock some sense into it that is very very INSULTING to me,or anyone you do it too

Dave Schulpius · Answer

Rich, I'm looking forward to your continued posts citing your expertise on the different OS's. I'll be looking for the other topic header you mentioned if you choose not to continue in this thread. See ya on the other side! Dave Schulpius

robotmaker · Answer

Yes thats the idea i said while back for him to start a new tread I will look at BUT will not comment on it ALSO TO clear one main fact i like my windows 7 enterprise on my main pc computer very fast 64 bit system so what you said was wrong again that i am hostle or dont like windows 7 and only like windows xp

Rich · Answer

@robotmaker (everyone else can ignore) Re-read the post. Don't twist my words. I did not say that nor in that context and it would be appreciated if you didn't keep saying those lies. You do not listen (or more so, read) properly, ignore questions and it gets to a point where you made me want to shake you by the head until something sticks, I believe those were my words (or very similar). No threats just trying to get across to you how god damn annoying it is when you are so closed minded on something that you 1) don't answer (and still haven't) questions asked by more than just me and 2) don't even consider anything other than your opinion to be true. Do not reply to this, there is nothing to reply to. Just re-read and hopefully you will understand exactly what I said rather than have your own, misunderstood, idea of what I said. @Everyone; Test 2 with quick optimisation but no updates currently running (no updates to save time as it seems to have the power drain issue that comes free of charge with Windows 7 out of the box) to indicate how even a quick optimisation can help power drain.

robotmaker · Answer

to me is was a threat and a INSULT wow you deleted the the message how low is that (sorry all made a small mistake on the time in my wordpad,i didnt add the time ) (Seriously I want to physically grab your head and shake it until something gets through)

Rich · Answer

I haven't deleted any messages, which are you talking about as the one where I was very frustrated by you being impossible to deal with and extremely illogical is still there.

robotmaker · Answer

ok sorry RICH you did not deleted the post it was on my wordpad wrong i forgot the date AT LEAST I SAY I AM SORRY ,but you never said you are sorry on the insult to me here is the copy that it A INSULT TO me only (Seriously I want to physically grab your head and shake it until something gets through!.. )

Rich · Answer

Again, go back a few posts, I apologised to everyone trying to follow the topic. If you are insulted by that then I'm afraid I've insulted you. I will not be apologising for it, I stand by it, you are impossible and illogical and nothing seems to get through to you. It was not meant as a threat (there is a huge ocean between us for starters, be logical!) and you have read it out of context. If that is grounds for a ban then so be it but I will not be apologising to you for having hurt your feelings.

robotmaker · Answer

THATS what a thought a very very bad person not man of enough to apologised to me atleast i am better and nicer man the you ,i said i was SORRY AND if you read it does seem almost ALMOST THREAT and me its a threat my dad is like that and big brother is like,they love to drink and watch sports all the tome.I dont drink or watch sports ,THAT WHY LADIES SAY I AM NICE GUY you could of made it different and still meen the same and have not like a insult its also seems you do no not care anyone feeling you hurt with that last remark lord say if some hurts you give him the other cheek thats how i treat people always

Rural Geek · Answer

Rich Thanks for the tips. If I do anything with the regedit I'll back it up like you said. I am going to uninstall all I can and shutting off stuff in the start up. if you have any other ideas that I can try that would be great. I'll try that Ready Boost. If I have any more questions I'll start a new thread.

Rich · Answer

Test 2 is finished, crazy thing but it lasted quite a lot longer after quick optimisation. I'll upload the chart and log once it's finished generating the recharge chart. These two tests are purely to show how optimisation of settings can make a huge difference. It'll probably be tomorrow before I get them uploaded now as it's getting late. @Rural, post them here for now, I'm trying desperately to get this back on to Windows and off of the conflict. Provided you have the recovery discs and it's purely for ARC you can't do anything that can't be easily fixed with a recover and reinstall

Rural Geek · Answer

@Rich, Yea thats right too I'l make a recovery disk for it. Yea its only going to be used ARC not even net exploring.

Rich · Answer

Damn it, I was writing out a quick list of valuable websites to use for reference when turning off services, uninstalling programs and making tweaks but something went wrong and it's all gone... So now it isn't going to be as pretty and formatted but links are there. https://www.blackviper.com/service-configurations/black-vipers-windows-7-service-pack-1-service-configurations/ A good source for the services. https://www.tweakguides.com/TGTC.html Tweak Guides Tweak Companion is another great tool which is clear in what everything does. https://www.rt7lite.com/downloads.html If you want to build your own ISO with tweaks etc. already done. (More for if you are planning more than one PC with a standardised set up, I'm toying with the idea of building an ISO optimised for ARC) If there is anything on the links above which you aren't sure of feel free to ask.

Rural Geek · Answer

Dude you rock. I'll check them out. Thanks again.

Troy · Answer

I woke to 40+ emails notifying me of thread updates. At least some of it was very useful and so in the end it was worth wading through. May I recommend EZ-Chat to clear the air next time? Thank you RichMR2 for posting some hard data for others to make their own choice. I also thank all those who helped keep the thread on topic and alive. I look forward to more hard info on "Using Windows 7 on a robot".

robotmaker · Answer

SORRY TROY ,but after christmas since made this thread and some bad comments going to get DJ to deleted so a new tread can be made,DJ is on vacation and not good to bother him now

Dave Schulpius · Answer

Thanks for the links Rich. Just what the doctor ordered. I've used Black Viper before with XP on my Mame gaming rig. He knows what he's talking about. I was amazed how many services I could shut down I didn't need.

thetechguru · Answer

Awesome links Rich, thanks. I have saved them offline in my robot notebook. Alan

GIjim · Answer

The funny thing about this thread in entirety is... what manufacturers of serious robotics would base designs around windows xp. LOL. Links to "major robotics" that were given in this thread were 1) nothing anyone should consider major robotics manufacturers and 2) were from ~2007. No industrial level robotics company is using windows xp in 2012. LOL. The robokind product that was mentioned aswell runs Ubuntu Linux. Link me to Honda ASIMO running xp in 2012/2013 and I'll stand corrected. Jim

Troy · Answer

Keeping this thread on topic is like chasing a cat. @GIjim, Although we may not disagree with you, we are trying to be extra civil in order to keep on topic.

robotmaker · Answer

WELL i will be gettting in windows 7 ultimate very soon and will try the treaks and get it stripped down and compare it to a my stripped down windows XP,I THILL thing windows xp will be much faster no shore about the current to i run the tests BUT will post my results mostly we are the only robot club in the world that uses WINDOWS 7 IN A ROBOT andone knows another please post the link second i will write a mail to the major robotics companies since want to here thier answer or want to write to them for any answers and i will post the email.i may do a few ASIMO IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE that uses windows xp THIS topic is mostly about using windows XP on a robot,thats why i put it up not really about windows 7

robotmaker · Answer

WOW windows 7 PRO is a average OF $265 for a licence one one robot maybe ok but more,, i never care the of cost but i knows others might going to order one to do my test

Rich · Answer

@robotmaker You said you were running windows 7 in one of your first posts, why are you buying it to do a test if you are already running it? This topic was about 7, that's what you put in the title. You claimed it gave poor battery life, I disputed that and am in the process of proving that. It has taken a slight turn where advice has been offered to maximise the battery life. You seem to be editing your posts to try and force this topic focus on XP and are getting very defensive about XP when Windows 7 is discussed. ARC is recommended to use Windows 7. This community is about EZ-B and ARC. Therefore Windows 7 is no doubt the most used OS for the users of this forum. It really is a moot point what other robot manufacturers use as an OS. You have made your points about XP. Let me finish my tests and post all of my results and then we can discuss what we have both found out. The third test is currently running, this one will show battery life after applying all currently available windows updates and security fixes. Further tests will include; Testing an installation of Windows 7 optimised for ARC only, running ARC with Bluetooth connected to an EZ-B for the duration. Testing an installation of Windows XP with all current windows updates running ARC with Bluetooth connected to an EZ-B for the duration. Testing an installation of Windows XP optimised for ARC only, running ARC with Bluetooth connected to an EZ-B for the duration. Testing an installation of Windows 8 with all current windows updates running ARC wth Bluetooth connected to an EZ-B for the duration. Plus the 3 Windows 7 tests running under the same load one without any updates, one without any updates but some optimisation and one with all current updates and some optimisation. Also 1 Windows XP test running under the same load as the previous 3 Windows 7 load with all current updates. All tests are being carried out on the same PC with the same battery. Test logs indicate the battery power and this is logged throughout the test. Once these are all completed we will all have the information which can help us decide on which OS we will use for our builds. Until then we have nothing to base any opinions on other than our own personal experiences. Some of us have expressed those opinions already, we don't need to express them again. Yes, this includes me. It will take some time for the tests to complete as each new test will require a reinstallation of the OS and time spend updating and optimising it. I do not have an ETA for this yet as I am coming up to a very busy week of travelling around and seeing family. However, it is coming. If anyone is interested in any other tests please ask and, provided I have the OS, I will add it to the mix.

Troy · Answer

Thank you RichMR2 for going through all the trouble. I know you didn't have to and could have easily ignored the post. I appreciate the thorough methods youre using as well. As a side note, Im sure DJ already read the unedited posts.

Dave Schulpius · Answer

Rich, you are an asset to this group and EZB. Thanks for taking time away from your family and your own robot build to help this community.

robotmaker · Answer

RICH i said again i made a mistake aboout the TOPIC HEADING its mosly about windows XP in a robot and comparing it to windows 7 if you read my first post you will see that on buying the windows 7 ,i said before i guess you miss it ,i have now running on my main computer and can not trim it down that is why this THREAD will be removed as soon as DJ gets gets back but i did fix the heading some in my first post i saying that this post is only about the comparing of both windows xp and windows 7 and using windows xp in a robot sorry everyone about naming this THREAD WRONG,everyone things is mostly about using windows 7 ,but it not RICH i do have a copy of the first POST I MADE here is the copy of it ,no changes was made Here is somethings i found out by testing both windows XP and windows 7 Now i have 2.4ghz dual processor with 3 gig memory and using 32 bit systems both windows 7 and windows XP and windows XP on a bench mark test shows it was much faster,now with a 64 bit windows 7 it was a lot faster. But the windows 7 draw almost double current then windows XP THAT why if you check every professional robot over $1000 and some over $12000 like the one i am getting soon hanson ROBOKIND that just came out,none uses windows 7,robot cost more so they can easy add it,but they dont I thing most people like it because its lastest thing out ,like the lastest IPAD,every changes it to get the lastest model What happens when windows 8 and then 9 comes out,wont want windows 7 anymore Posted at 12/20/2012 10:55:58 AM #4

robotmaker · Answer

RICH you said this also ( It really is a moot point what other robot manufacturers use as an OS.) that is not correct ,please show proof,all so far and lastest designs use windows xp also what word is (moot point) ALSO RICH when you do the tests get a pico- 12 volt dc-12volt atx converter or test wont be the same as mine and will not be a true test 12 volt dc to 12 dc atx converter and a inline current meter and a 12 volt battery i will be waiting to see you results RICH from reading you posts you do know alot about windows editions but i onlly know the test i did gave me very good resuls and until you do the same as mine wont be a true test i will still use windows xp because i have 20 with licences,maybe then they are used up maybe i will switch, icant and will not some guys might do is use the same disc for all thier computers when you BUY a licence is for only ONE computer only

Rich · Answer

Proof that it's a moot point what other robot manufacturers use?.. You ask what the phrase moot point is after arguing with that sentence? It's further proof that you either a) don't read things properly or b) don't understand them. If you don't understand then don't get involved, at least not here. I am trying to give insight in to different operating systems and their pros and cos, mostly regarding battery usage so once again, for the last time, I will ask you to refrain from posting garbage that's been posted over and over and wait until my report is complete then we can discuss what we have both found out. My tests are not being compared to yours, I stated which tests I will be carrying out, please re-read it so you are aware of what is being compared before involving yourself again.

robotmaker · Answer

i see you have jus as mad spelling as me .like COS AND MOOT AND I UNDERSTAND more then you think i will wait for your result and will post my results also the test i did was about a year ago

Rich · Answer

There is nothing wrong with my spelling and any typos that I may have made (which I don't believe there are any) are certainly not on par with yours. If you have carried out your tests a year ago please post the results. So far you have made no attempt to prove your posts whatsoever yet immediately jump on and defend them when questioned. There are a lot of inconsistencies in your posts which I would love to see cleared up. I eagerly await reading your reports and viewing your charts.

thetechguru · Answer

Wish we had private messaging here because I don't really want this to be public. Rich, just ignore the nonsense posts and the rest of us can discuss the actual pros and cons of the different operating systems. And now I am going to ignore my own advice. Robotmaker, look up the word moot. It was spelled and used correctly. I ignore the fact that that your grammar and spelling is atrocious. I assume English is not your primary language, and even if it is, I would not ever make fun or complain, but if you are going to attack someone else's spelling or grammar at least be correct yourself.

robotmaker · Answer

you said nothing wrong with you spelling (pros and cos, ) i never heard of the word COS cons yes ,and another is MOOT ,when the spelling should be MOST I did say my selling is bad also,i dont double check it Most clubs have a spelling checker to fix typo's errors THEY FORGET ABOUT THIS and see the tests

Rich · Answer

No, the spelling should be moot. If I missed the n from cons then you got me... that puts everything I have written as being incorrect because the n didn't register on the keyboard. As of now I will be ignoring all posts in this topic by @robotmaker. I wish he would understand this but my attempts have failed. Provided everyone else interested understands I can live with one not grasping it.

thetechguru · Answer

Sounds like a plan to me....

robotmaker · Answer

Ok i see WHAT you meen by a MOOT POINT. just i never ever in my life seen it came up and i know many others seen it too,its not a common word. But i look it up on the internet of what it meens I did not ever said you are incorrect. I disagree with a few things you say ,and you seem to disagree with me but does say you are incorrect

Rich · Answer

The first three tests are done, which were done mainly to prove the point that there was a massive discharge issue with Windows 7 out of the box and that proper upgrades, patches and optimisation can make huge differences... Test 1, no updates, no patches, no optimisation looked like this...  Test 3, all current updates and patches, minor power management optimisation and other minor windows tweaks looked like this...  (Test 2 was optimisation on an un-updated windows and will be included in my full report but pointless here for now) Notice the discharge times in the bottom right of the charts. 66 minutes for the first one whereas it was 448 minutes in the second. An increase of 382 minutes (over 6 hours!) or over 650% better... It's a massive increase in battery life, so much that I am not 100% convinced the first test is correct and will run it again when I run the Win7 out of the box ARC test to make sure it was running idle.

Dave Schulpius · Answer

RichMR2, the mad scientist of EZB! Thanks!

Troy · Answer

@RichMR2, your method is sound. The graph is a great idea to post. Even if its off by 60 minutes then its still great in my book.

GIjim · Answer

I still think the entire premise of this thread was intentional trolling. Ok, my laptop running DOS runs longer, therefore, robotics should run DOS! Windows XP is 4 generations old. LOL. Industry isn't building on ancient technology. Jim (LOL)

Rich · Answer

@Troy, I document everything and go way over the top. I love to see the data (call me crazy) and feel everything must be justified. @Jim, While XP is 4 generations old it still stands up next to Windows 7 as being one of the better operating systems. I still prefer to use it for some applications and it is very stable now. I have no doubt that an out of the box Windows XP SP3 will be a little more efficient than Windows 7 with updates and fixes but I've kinda challenged myself to make Windows 7 run for longer. Whether or not I can is a different story but I'm damn sure going to try After all, ARC is recommended to run on Windows 7.

Rich · Answer

Either I did a very good job of optimising Windows 7 for ARC or ARC only reduces the battery life by 10 minutes (this didn't include any video processing from the EZ-kit camera), either way I am impressed with the results. ARC loaded up and Battery Eater ready to monitor the ACPI for battery charge levels (ignore the time, I didn't bother to set the correct time zone, I am 8 hours ahead of that time).  The first of the real tests, ARC optimised Windows 7 running ARC while connected to a single EZ-B board via bluetooth.  Total time: 7:17:56 (438 minutes) As a side note, I know the PC had never run Windows XP for over 14 hours without a recharge, come to think of it I don't think it ever lasted 7 hours... But the XP results (next test, possibly tomorrow) will shed a lot of light on it all.

GIjim · Answer

I guess my point is there's not much point to this thread. While I'm glad rich threw up enough data to quiet the troll, I think the troll egged on enough to just get a rise out of people. Bottom line is, industry isn't building new products on xp no matter how efficient it is. And for a personal robot, one would be wise to use what they already have, be it xp or 7 or 8. And you'd be even wiser to meet minimum system spec. Lol. Jim

jstarne1 · Answer

Im enjoying the tests and data. These are things that are very valuable. Do you mind making a video and typing a list of steps to optimize win 7 to make this substantial impact? I believe the tests and directions for optimization us excellent EZ Robot Wiki material.

robotmaker · Answer

I agree with GIJIM alot and using the same.

Rich · Answer

There is a lot of point in knowing the differences between battery life (amongst other issues) of each supported operating system. Many netbooks come with a linux os pre-installed, obviously this is no good for ARC so the user would have to make a decision on which operating system to install. Or, is having fully supported ARC software worth any loss in battery life or would an MP3 board be a better option (voice synthases issue in XP from what I've read). Not to mention all of those systems already running Windows 7 and scratching their heads as to why they only get an hours worth of use from a 5Ah battery. Each of us will have a different reason for choosing what we choose, some may not even have a choice, but the information is becoming available to allow everyone to make up their own minds. This isn't for anyone to say "you must use blaa blaa blaa" it is to give everyone the opportunity to see a clear picture. @Josh, I will do at least a list of the optimisations I have carried out, if not a full on tutorial (I'm even toying with the idea of building a set of custom ARC optimised Windows 7 ISOs). The PC I'm using for these tests is being a little bit awkward and not letting me downgrade to XP from the desktop and with my media being on a USB stick it makes it a little more awkward to boot install, so it's not moved forward for a while, but it's still coming

Herr Ball · Answer

I too would like to see the steps done on how to optimize Windows 7 for ARC and Windows XP for that matter. Anything that can make our batteries last a little while longer can only be, as Martha Stewart says, "thats a good thing", LOL. Long Live ARC !

robotmaker · Answer

here is a link for a free XPLITE FREE XPLITE this is what is says about the free trail version FREE TRIAL - a free, feature rich, no-nags edition that works with both Windows XP and Windows 2000. Trial, or use for life. i got the pro version from a friend ,but only costs $39 to buy it here is a link to PEBUILDER TOO ,its also free FREE pebuilder

Rich · Answer

There are loads of XP/Vista/7 customisers out there and PE builders (but BartPE really is the best - popularity doesn't lie). Always make sure you back up before using one. They make it very easy to turn off features required for operation and can do more damage than good in many cases. I've seen people use these things and think they know what they are doing but in reality they don't. Don't pay for the pro version, it doesn't do anything that other free software can't already do, it doesn't do anything you can't do in Windows without any extra software (it just gives a fancy GUI) Also, it looks like Windows 8 is the most battery friendly of the Windows OS. The Windows 8 test is currently ongoing (and has been for almost 6 hours) and it's reporting an estimated battery life of around 7.5-8 hours. That's half an hour more than my optimised Windows 7 and an hour more than Windows XP. and at 25 from Microsoft store (in the UK) it's the cheapest too. Still running tests so will post up all info once they are done.

jstarne1 · Answer

You must have a really big battery on your laptop.

robotmaker · Answer

Thats why i like XPLITE PRO ,easy to use very very cheap some can make a customiser for windows 7 or windows xp ,but one they sell are always the best or that person that made one would be a rich person selling his one reason like BARTPE and others not so great

Rich · Answer

The screen is set to turn off after about 2 minutes of inactivity and is very dim when it's on. ARC doesn't need a screen to run, especially if it's voice or joystick controlled. And can also be controlled remotely to save the energy the screen uses, for this reason I chose to run the tests with these settings applied (possibly a bad idea when tests last from 4 to 8 hours).

Rich · Answer

For anyone interested in just the reports I've done so far (Windows 7, Windows 7 with updates, Windows 7 with tweaks, Windows 8) I've uploaded the draft reports. I have noticed that these tests are repairing the battery and slowly getting it back to it's original capacity so I will need to calculate the mWh from the information it's logged and base results on that, not on the time the test lasted. Draft Reports I still have Windows 8 tweaked, Windows XP & Windows XP tweaked to run the tests on and the tutorial of how to tweak Windows to get the most out of the battery, that'll all come shortly.

ahmed eshra · Answer

i know why windows 7 64-bit uses more power bec it enables the processor to use the 64-bit archtecture which is double the processor power also win xp is faster using 32-bit cause it is based on 32-bit commands

Rich · Answer

It isn't necessarily the case that it'll use double the power to perform a task using 64bit over 32bit.

Dave Schulpius · Answer

Hi Rich, Great work so far. Just a quick question, I see your running tests for Windows 7 Enterprise. Would Win 7 Home Premium return close to the same results using the updates and tweaks you used? I don't expect you to go through the extra work to run tests. Only your respected opinion.

Rich · Answer

I only use Enterprise as it's easier when I have to keep reinstalling. Basically put without going too deep in to the differences, Home Premium & Enterprise should be pretty much the same. Enterprise is basically the same as Ultimate but has a few extras that aren't available to the public (nothing great mind you). The comparison chart is on wikipedia I plan to do a test on Windows 7 32bit also, with the exact same settings as a previous test to show the difference between 32 and 64 bit power consumption. The nuts and bolts of it all are the same for these tests purposes.

Dave Schulpius · Answer

Thanks rich. I will be looking forword to the 32 test.

robotmaker · Answer

I do see i something on that comparison chart on windows 7 ,that supports ends 1-14-2020 Also found out the the end of support for windows xp has been extended to (Extended Support Period (2014-04-08) here is a link to that info comparison of windows xp

robotmaker · Answer

some other info on building a special environment for windows 7 and windows xp called WINPE and the software you can get free from microsoft called WAIK toolkit here is a link to info on it wiki WINPE

Rich · Answer

Trying not to be insulting but building a WinPE build capable of giving full functionality to ARC is probably beyond most of the community. Bearing in mind that the whole WinPE environment is an exploit mainly used by administrators to give flexibility for the NTFS file system that DOS cannot support.

robotmaker · Answer

Here is the links to both of them,it seems to be like XPLITE but free free winpe for windows xp winpe for windows 7

Rich · Answer

It's very basic unattended installation software, there are better, much better. I would personally recommend nlite for xp and rt7lite for 7. But again, be careful what you turn off, especially with these unattended helpers as it physically removes the programs from the installation disc meaning you cannot add them if you find something else doesn't work because you removed something you thought wasn't needed. Go back a few pages and you will find links to Black Viper (the internet's best resource for stripping down windows) and the ultimate tweaking guide, both should be fully understood before attempting anything remotely linked to optimising your system. PS your XP WinPE links to Vista not XP...

robotmaker · Answer

i guess you didnt see the site or miss-read it . Supported Operating Systems: Windows Server 2003 SP1; Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista . Windows XP SP2 with KB926044 . Windows Server 2003 SP1 with KB926044 . Windows Server 2003 SP2 . Windows Vista family

Rich · Answer

You're right, I didn't scroll down. I still advise against using it. Use nLite instead.

robotmaker · Answer

I like XPLITE alot better,easy to use and more,i tried NLITE didnt seem to like it,I GUESS IT BECAUSE ITS FREE ,it doesnt have very much Maybe other might like and maybe not Me i like trying all types of software,free or buy to try i downloaded both versions of WAIK toolkit and burned a disk and will try this weekend for my own compare tests, If i have a problem i can easy re-install the windows xp or 7 back again its not very hard to do also when i download any software ,i have a computer made for only that and i all other computers i diconnect from the internet,thay another reason i dont get viruses

Rich · Answer

nLite runs on more than just XP (i.e. Windows 7) where as XPLite is only supported by XP. Therefore, to produce a lite version of XP you must already be running XP, this is not ideal for many as they run Windows 7. It doesn't run in Compatibility mode either and pretty much crashed my PC forcing a reboot and leaving junk all over the place (so don't try it in Windows 7) The problem with having to keep reinstalling Windows is your licence key will only activate a set number of times before it is blocked, or worse blacklisted. This is why I have been using Windows 7 Enterprise with VLK for all of the tests which have required reinstallations. FYI, viruses (and all other parasites) aren't confined to internet usage. Not allowing a computer internet access is not a sensible protection method, it also removes the ability to perform the valuable windows updates which have been flagged as extremely required by my Windows 7 tests, Windows XP is no different, it needs the updates. You may not wish to take that advice but I cannot allow people to read such poor practice and them think it's OK.

robotmaker · Answer

i didnt say my computers dont use internet they all do. Only when i download a software i DISCONNECT THEM ONLY i mostly only have windows XP and one computer running windows 7 AND ALL HAVE ANTIVIRUS PROGRAMS One mine i made a exact copy of my harddrive ,so if i have any problems or viruses,i just put the new drive in,this i dont have to use the licence key

Rich · Answer

I cannot let poor practice be seen as something that is ok so will always advise against it when seen. A common quote from across the internet put out by all top antivirus companies, system administrators, technicians etc. If your computer is connected to a home network or if your work computer is part of a larger network, you may find yourself with an infection through no fault of your own. Someone else on the network downloaded a bug by accident, and within minutes, the entire network could be infected. There isn't much you can do to stop these kinds of infections. Viruses and other parasites (worms mainly) can survive format and fdisk, they can sit in the MBR, they can hijack the boot strap loader and become stealthy and extremely hard to remove, sometimes impossible with retail software alone. They can move around networks (wireless and wired). They will store themselves on any media which they can write to, in any location, including the "super hidden" windows locations. Let's not forget the infamous Windows XP worm which would attack immediately upon connection to the internet, before any windows updates or security fixes could be applied. Depending on how this "exact copy" was made (a question previously asked but like most questions asked remained unanswered) will determine if it could possibly be holding a parasite, if it could have a previous parasite thought to have been destroyed by deleting infected files, formatting it or using fdisk... I could go on but I suspect it would be wasted... If you are ignorant enough to ignore this advice and previous advice of your poor practice methods then it is your call but do not attempt to circulate those methods as being OK to do, they are not. I also do not wish, one way or the other, to know if you take my advice, a reply to this is not required. This is mainly for the benefit of those who will take it on board.

robotmaker · Answer

It works perfect for me for over 3 years never had a problem,i have a large home network at my house and each one has a antivirus on it ,and been a very long time since i got one and i keep my norton and other antivirus well update PLEASE stay on topic

Rich · Answer

You contradict yourself, pick a story and stick to it. Either you do or you don't have virus protection and that has changed throughout this topic. The methods you have advised of disconnecting from the internet and running no virus protection, relying on a copy of a "clean" drive are very bad practice and ill advised, not explained clearly and open to people who don't know much about computers doing things which will make their lives a lot of hard work. I really do not care if this has gone off topic again. I will not have anyone posting bad practice methods without at least pointing out that they are bad practice. This topic has gone off on a tangent from the start when your false claims were justifiably disputed and you edited most of your posts from their original. It really does not matter any more. Do not advise anyone to simply disconnect their internet in order to be safe from viruses As a side note, you may want to look in to replacing your Norton products with virus protection that a) works and b) isn't a resource hog. I suggest ESET if you are willing to pay or AVG Free if not. Norton products no longer get included in the major tests due to their uselessness. Use that information however you wish to, again you needn't tell me.

robotmaker · Answer

AVG IS one i use in some of my computers and like i keep saying I DO HAVE ANTIVIRUS programs ON DISCONNECT from the internet is only when i am downloading a file,then i re-connect IF you dont have internet cant get on forums or send emails or use the home network most people on the forum dont have more then 3 computers like me when i download a file i have a computer not hookup to my home network and i connect to the internet,at the same time i disconnect all my others until the downloading is finished and re-connect them back

Dave Schulpius · Answer

Like a dog chasing its tail. eyeroll Actually I think a lot of people have more then 3 computers. I'm a very average guy and I have 7 and if you want to count my smart phones that would raise it to 9. 2 tablets would bring it up to 11. Then there is the AV and the Roku and the Tivo. That would bring it up to 14. Humm, I may have missed a few but this is getting boring. sleep Rich, You say Norton is now in the bad list? Sad, I thought it was one of the best? PC World had it listed as top tear last year. I heard it was a resource hog but I thought they fixed that. I'm starting to get about 1/2 second lag after loading down EZB with a bunch of ADC Value control windows. I'm running Norton on my older Dell lap top with an Duel Core CPU that has a fresh install of Win 7 home prem. I wonder if changing to a lighter anti virus program would help or maybe I could also trim down the services I'm running. I really don't want to buy a new laptop. Maybe I'll start a new thread on this.

Rich · Answer

Norton wasn't tested last year with the top AV programs by some of the big time reviewers. Many people claim Norton products can be as bad as a virus when they go wrong. I personally haven't rated Norton products for around 10 years when I had huge problems booting up due to Norton sitting there screwing up the boot process (and that was very hard to repair). Try changing it to AVG Free if you don't mind adverts, and be careful of the way they attempt to force the paid version on you, also do advanced install to avoid unwanted toolbars. Or ESET Nod is a very light and good AV software, it's what I use and I only notice it when it updates the definitions and catches >97% of viruses with much fewer false positives. Check out AV-Comparatives for detailed testing on AV software. That said, Microsoft Security Essentials combined with Malwarebytes Anti Malware is a great, free combination which protects most adequately.

robotmaker · Answer

DAVE 7 ,i guess you have a network kinda like mine,i have one in each room including a kitchen and in the computer room i have 2 server's one for video and other for my network,plus 3 computers in computer room with seperate screens total of 10 BUT i dont many people have 3 computers

robotmaker · Answer

Not much of a reason to have more then 1 computer,unless a person have a media center setup in his house,or home businesss or automation house Mine not a home business,but i have a media center all over the house,and fully controlled automation house,X10 and lot more,and adding much more with EZB with controlled lepard gecko tank and controlled ring tail lemur cage

Dave Schulpius · Answer

Rich, Thanks for the answer. I remember that problem with Norton a few years back. I also had a boot problem because of them. I had to call their tech support to help out. After they helped me fix it, they gave me 2 years free. I was hooked after that. However I do notice that Norton spikes the CPU meter once in a while. I've been temped to try out others. I already run a paid version of Malwarebytes after my desktop icons disappeared and it saved the day. Norton let that little nasty through. Again, after Malwarebytes fixed that I was hooked. Again, Thanks!

robotmaker · Answer

I use malwarebytes also,it not great but works ok,It didnt catch items that AVG did so i guess you need both of them, Also have KASPERSKY anitvirus software I try alot of antivirus software to see what one works the best ,but on all the ones i tried still shows only 1 or 2 virus or none ,with protection i use Before i downloaded problems with all my computers on a network and i would get a lot now with the new idea almost none ANOTHER favorate of mine in all my computers is the free PCCLEANER,its not a antivirus but does a great job of cleaning up and fixing errors

Rich · Answer

Try CCleaner, it's better than PC Cleaner, it's the number 1 cleaning software. Just be cautious of what you clean up, especially in the registry and booting, major problems can happen by removing something that is needed. I do not suggest using it unless you know what you are doing. Malwarebytes Anti Malware (MBAM) is not antivirus, it's anti-malware so it's no surprise that AVG picked up something that MBAM did not (AVG is also prone to reporting false positives). MBAM is the best anti malware program out there, that is backed up by every PC technician, engineer, network administrator and every test carried out on anti malware software. What makes you say it's not great?

Rich · Answer

OK, so I've decided to cut down on the number of tests due to the time taken for most of them and the differences being minimal. There is still the Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit test to carry out but as I intend on using that on the laptop once this is all done that's going to be the last test. So far, the results are quite surprising to be honest. I just finished the Windows XP test and, well, it wasn't what I expected!.. Windows 7, no updates, no optimisation 66 min (void, appears it may have been under load not idle) Windows 7, no updates, minor optimisation 86 min Windows 7, all updates, minor optimisation 448 min Windows 8, all updates, no optimisation 432 min Windows XP, all updates, no optimisation 162 min Remember, these will be different for your hardware and battery capacity. My battery capacity actually increased throughout the tests from test 1 being 56358mWh and test 5 being 60621mWh so I will be calculating the discharge rates based on this to give a more accurate comparison. So, in short, there you have it. Windows XP certainly isn't the more energy efficient OS as was first argued but Windows 7 or Windows 8, once updated with fixes and patches, is miles above the rest. Use this as you see fit. It is for guidance only. Over the next few days I'll sort out a guide/tutorial for how to get the most out of your battery and post up results for Windows 7 Home Premium. I've also updated the draft reports with the 5th test and results.

robotmaker · Answer

Made a small mistake it is CCLEANER,been doing computers for a long time,but thanks for advice others may need it AND test i did one mine was much different i see something you forgot Windows XP, all updates, no optimisation 162 min Windows 7, no updates, no optimisation 66 min I would like to see windows7 with updates,no optimisation to match the same test as mine and maybe it your computer,i dont know i only know what i see ON MINE

Rich · Answer

As stated way back at the beginning of this thread, you either didn't install all patches and updates or you have another problem with the installation/PC. These results back that up. No amount of optimisation would decrease battery drain by the difference between tests 3 and 5. Based on the information I know about Windows 7 and 8 I would imagine an unoptimised Windows 7 to be around 432min as Windows 8 was, so an increase of 16 minutes through minor optimisation. It does not matter what test you carried out. The Windows ACPI logs of the discharge of the battery prove my points and give enough information for people to make an informed decision on which OS to choose. As I will be providing information and tutorials on the optimisation carried out and the inclusion of Windows 8 without optimisation there is no reason to carry out a further test as per your demand.

robotmaker · Answer

PLEASE dont tell me i didnt install the patches ,please Like i am, going to say and this whole thread i found using windows xp SAVED ME battery life,if you like WINDOWS 7 so much use it in your robots or if other lkie to use it fine also maybe if i optimisation it it might be better and may be not Also like you said no other tests if needed my my demand, i see you re-edited your post would love very much to see one robot design using WINDOWS 7, and i dont meen professional,looking at hobby robot,and not from this forum many many out there with guys like us building so many many robots and more each day and so far none using WINDOWS 7

Rich · Answer

it's not about what I like, it's about what the test reported back. You cannot justify yourself against the ACPI logs from my tests. You have shown no indication of when you will be providing your results and have said very little on how you come about your opinion. If you did have an up to date Windows 7 installation then you have some other issue with your PC causing a power drain. My tests clearly show that Windows XP puts a higher demand on the CPU and has a faster battery discharge rate than any other updated OS. I highly suggest you look in to this as it could be flagging up a root kit or other malware which has remained undetected. Optimisation had very little impact on the battery life which was expected as it was only minor, basic optimisation. If you wish to ignore these tests and carry on using Windows XP, for whatever reason, then please do so but until you can justify and prove any arguments against these results please refrain from disputing them. No further discussions will be had on this subject until you can provide adequate logs of your tests, including as a minimum the logs from the advanced configuration and power interface (ACPI)

robotmaker · Answer

wll at least this debate will go back and forth and never ends you said this Just be cautious of what you clean up, especially in the registry and booting, major problems can happen by removing something that is needed. I do not suggest using it unless you know what you are doing. I think most people know you always back it up first,CCLEANER has that SO YOU CAN UNDO IT second i look at every line in the registery ,before i delete it,and sometimes can get rid of some mareware or ads without using marewarebytes,i alot of it is in the registery and CCLEANER dosent find them Not going to run most tests ,i build robots and will take time of my building them and my freelance work i do for my job I did have a friend that live near me until he moved,he knows alot more about windows 7 then you would ever know HE let me see windows 7 prototype ,before the market was selling them,and he was running tests on for a big software company AND PLEASE dont tell me not dispute them you have your opinions and i have mine ,and we all have a right to what we say

Rich · Answer

I have my facts (fully justified & proven) of which I am more than qualified to comment on, you have your opinions which have been proven incorrect, are inconsistent and contradict your earlier posts, there is a big difference and I am finding it harder and harder to take you seriously. And FYI, I've been a member of MSDN for longer than I care to remember, I have multiple Microsoft certifications across many software applications and operating systems and have been an official tester of Microsoft operating systems since Windows XP. Not forgetting the fact I hold VLKs for most Microsoft Operating Systems which, well, look up how you get that privilege. To put it bluntly, you're an idiot if you ignore my advice, especially when it is backed up by hours of testing, over a decade of training and has been certified by the very people who make the software... but of course you know better because you had a friend who showed you RC1... If you intend to dispute my tests you must be able to back up and justify your outrageous claims. They are not opinions, they are facts based on research and testing with results available to justify them. If you don't know the difference between that and an opinion then you are a bigger idiot than I had thought.

Troy · Answer

@RichMR2, please continue your tests. Remember there are so many of us following this thread. Try not to beat your head against the wall or get personal. We understand though.

robotmaker · Answer

did not disputed your facts just it what i found out doing my tests,there is no reason to prove it mostly found out the windows xp is faster compare to windows 7 without any changes BUT worst part i dont like about windows 7 it takes so much bigger hard drive space and there is much proof on that from microsoft site I look for very small windows software on a flash drive,plus there are photos of images and faces ,and other software is needed like SAPI ,plus have half the hard drive full for virtual memory usage So really forget about battery usage,not that important this post is like DAVID said like a dog chasing a tail it never ends PS (my mom dogs can catch his tail its long )LOL

Dave Schulpius · Answer

Ok, you two need to get a divorce. Rich gets custody of me. Great methodology Rich. Very impressive. Cant wait to see your paperwork in this one!

robotmaker · Answer

RICH loves to get personal about it i never ever said his facts are wrong,only what i found out thats all i know RICH is very much in love with his WINDOWS 7 Me i like both operating systems really only see 4 others reading this topic besides RICH and ME Dave ,Troy and 2 others

Troy · Answer

Fred, you know that it's possible for people to read a thread without posting to it. Rest assured that there are many reading it. Also its not about love of windows 7...Dang it..almost got sucked in... (finds nearest wall to beat head against) stress

robotmaker · Answer

Really dont know if others are reading it and i dont too,nobody does

fredebec · Answer

I am reading it I am particularly interrested in windows 8 results, as i have installed it before buying ezb... I am reassured. Thanks RichMR2! (and hopefully, there is no near wall around my computer)

Rich · Answer

@Troy, I was waiting there to welcome you to my world. To be honest, battery life is not important to my own robot build as it will be controlled by a PC which is plugged in to the mains. Future robots may not be but at this stage the purpose of these tests is to find the information on which has a slowed battery discharge rate. The fact of the matter is, there is a power drain issue with Windows 7. There are updates which fix this issue and slow down the discharge rate. Testing has shown the discharge rates and everyone is free to use the results however they see fit. If anyone wishes to dispute any of the results or comparisons they are free to do so provided they can justify their claims with similar data. (Battery Eater is free software, please produce your own test results if you want to argue with mine).

Troy · Answer

Thats all we want is some data and so we can make informed choices. Data is better than hearsay.

robotmaker · Answer

DATA is always better ,everyone know that but also depends on hardware and the setup SO its better for everyone to do thier own tests,because could change (could change) On battery problem not a big deal for me,just add a bigger battery,or have it charged i would like to use less wattage ,but not really a big deal only item i look at is the monster SIZE hard drive space needed for windows 7

Troy · Answer

Umm. I can't do all the tests myself as i don't have the software to do so. Rich is doing the leg work and establishing a general benchmark so i can make an educated guess.

robotmaker · Answer

MOST if not all software is free,it only takes time i dont trust other making the tests ITs better for other s to make the tests and see if they get the same results but i guess dont have the time,like me I look at making all my robots very light and try not to use HARD DRIVES or SSD FLASH MEMORY is what i like using only they dont have them very big SSD is great ,fast but take up space,and hard drives ,bad idea,if robot bumps or falls no more hard drive,and the draw more current and much weight

Rich · Answer

Other people needn't do their own tests. Yes each system is different but my tests were all carried out on the exact same machine, the results of which indicate purely the discharge rate difference between different OS. Yes your battery may have a higher discharge rate, a lower discharge rate, higher or lower capacity, all of that is irrelevant. The point being shown is the change in discharge rate between operating system. Other users probably don't have the time, patience or even the software to do this. While the Battery Eater program is free the OS are not. Everyone could run the battery eater test on their set up but it would prove nothing and be pointless. As my system remained constant throughout the tests, the battery remained the same, the hardware remained the same, the memory, hard drive, on board devices... all of this can be eliminated from discussions leaving only the rate of discharge, which is logged and charted to aid users decisions. Are you (@robotmaker) really trying to argue this still? As for Hard Drive space, how small is your hdd if the size of Windows 7 is an issue? Are you attempting to boot from an SD card? If so, you have other problems to tackle. If not, stop arguing, you have no argument.

Troy · Answer

@rich. A new years resolution for you. Wear a helmet when beating head against wall.

robotmaker · Answer

mine able to boot easy from flash drive ,windows 7 wont fit on it all i know is the test i took and results i got are correct i dont care if you think i am lier or wrong,i did the tests and it gave not great results using both software with updates and no changes TROY with me a never ever beat my head on the wall i never once ever get mad or insult anyone,just a super nice gentleman not like the one guy on this forum thats not just like he said ,he doesnt care if he hurts another persons feeling

Rich · Answer

show us your results or shut up about them If you have a legitimate reason to dispute the results I have provided I am more than happy to review it. If not you have no justified argument. I have nothing further to say on this matter until any further results are given. Mine are available here for those who want to look at all of the data. Once I have everything up together I'll post up the finished reports, tutorial etc. probably in a new topic as this one seems to end up with the important information buried by garbage and argument.

Troy · Answer

Fred. Remember this thread is not just for you. Its great your system works just the way you want it. For me however i want more info and or a second opinion if you will. Im not going to talk any more on this or try explaining any further.

robotmaker · Answer

PLEASE dont tell me to shut up i have a right to my opinions just like you TROY happy new year

robotmaker · Answer

i see RICH is from the UK ,i am going there in 3 months for vacation,i hope he is not in any town i am going to see anybody else i can visit but him

robotmaker

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